PV Setup - configuration and understanding

[tvbshelly]

6 minutes ago, Folke said:

Wie kann ich meine erzeugte Energie negativ darstellen?

Welchen Shelly nutzt du? Nicht jeder Shelly kann erzeugte Energie negativ darstellen.

Bei Shelly mit Wandlern z.B. PRO 3EM und Pro EM ist es wichtig, dass die Wandler-Richtung korrekt ist.

[tvbshelly]

On 3.8.2024 at 07:24, AlexAn said:

Völlig egal um welchen Erzeuger es sich handelt es muss innerhalb des Gerätes lokal abgerechnet werden!

Genau. Das Saldieren muss ja im 3-phasigen Shelly PRO 3EM gemacht werden (installiert in der Nähe des Hausanschlusses) und der PRO 3EM kann ja gar nicht wissen, wie konkret eingespeist wird.

Ich habe einen 3-phasigen WR, aber zeitweise misst der Pro 3EM nur auf einer Phase Einspeisung (negativ), auf den anderen Phasen entweder 0 oder sogar Netzbezug. Bei 0 wird halt alles direkt im Haus verbraucht. Es kann gleichzeitig auf einer Phase sogar Netzbezug auftreten, weil der Hausverbrauch höher ist als der WR auf dieser Phase aktuell leistet.

The balancing must be done in the 3-phase Shelly PRO 3EM (installed near the grid connection) and the PRO 3EM has no way of knowing how, i.e. on which phases, PV power is actually being supplied.

I have a 3-phase inverter, but in some cases the Pro 3EM measures export (negative) only on one phase, while the other phases are either 0 or even draw from the grid. 0 means everything on this phase is consumed directly in the house. At the same time, there may even be grid consumption on another phase because the house consumption is higher than the current output of the inverter on this phase.

[tvbshelly]

Basically, the firmware is currently doing it "almost right": unfortunately only by adding up (integrating) all negative phases and all positive phases in the measurement interval and then adding them to the respective counter/meter (instead of simply adding/integrating across all phases, then only adding it to correct one counter/meter depending on the sign).

This is how it should be:
Add up/integrate the power across all phases and count it as a consumption (consumption meter) if the result is positive and as export (export meter) if the result is negative. That is balancing.

A simple if statement is probably enough to implement this - just a guess 😇

@Dimitar

[Homer]

Hi Everyone,

I have a "parallel" setup with one Shelly 3EM at my grid source. It shows negative values when my PV system overproduces, and this is correctly reflected as "generating" on the energy tab of the web interface. I’ve installed a second Shelly 3EM directly on the trunk of my PV system (3-phase). This one shows positive values, and I've set it as the "generating source" as recommended. However, I’ve excluded this Shelly from the consumption settings in my account, so the energy tab numbers look more accurate.

Is this the correct approach, or do I need to reverse the measuring clamps on the PV Shelly to get accurate values? Reversing them is difficult due to their location, so I would appreciate any advice on setting it up correctly before going through the trouble of changing them.

Best,
Homer

Edited August 17 by Homer
adding additional context

[tvbshelly]

2 hours ago, Homer said:

Is this the correct approach, or do I need to reverse the measuring clamps on the PV Shelly to get accurate values?

Yes, this is the recommended way for your installation: measure PV as positive and set the device type of the PV Shelly as the "generating source".

[tvbshelly]

2 hours ago, Homer said:

Reversing them is difficult due to their location

If ever necessary, this can be done via the configuration without changing anything on the hardware:

 

[Homer]

21 minutes ago, tvbshelly said:

If ever necessary, this can be done via the configuration without changing anything on the hardware:

 

Wow! Thanks for the quick response—much appreciated. However, I can't find this menu item on my Shelly 3EM. I'm not using the Pro version like you showed in your screenshot, and I’ve already applied the latest firmware. Does this feature only work with the Pro version?

Thanks again for your fast help, and have a great day!

Homer

[Dreckfresse]

The Gen1 3EM don‘t have this option 

[tvbshelly]

1 minute ago, Homer said:

Does this feature only work with the Pro version?

Oh, I completely overlooked the fact that you don't use the Pro. Good question, unfortunately I don't know whether the 3EM also has this option

[thgoebel]

As a last resort swapping the pins of the current clamps would be possible: Either via pulling the pins out of the cage or with an adapter cable. Such a cable (three a required, one for each clamp) could I provide for 2,50€ per piece. Shipping extra…

Please send PM if interested!

[Homer]

2 hours ago, thgoebel said:

As a last resort swapping the pins of the current clamps would be possible: Either via pulling the pins out of the cage or with an adapter cable. Such a cable (three a required, one for each clamp) could I provide for 2,50€ per piece. Shipping extra…

Please send PM if interested!

Thanks, but I already managed it to swap the clamps. 

[tvbshelly]

3 minutes ago, Homer said:

Thanks, but I already managed it to swap the clamps. 

I'm a bit confused now.

You wrote that you measure PV as positive values with the original setup. That is definitely correct.
Why have you turned the CTs now?

[Homer]

3 hours ago, tvbshelly said:

I'm a bit confused now.

You wrote that you measure PV as positive values with the original setup. That is definitely correct.
Why have you turned the CTs now?

D'oh! You're right! My mistake—I switched it for testing and then changed it back to the original setup without mentioning it. It's now back to the initial setup described, and everything is working. I've also found a better spot in the switchboard that provides easier access to the CTs and makes switching simpler if needed.

[Bragidonar]

Can you Made PMmini to the configuration setup ?

[Jrodrigues]

Shelly Plus PM Mini 

doesn't work anymore..

always worked well

 

Edited August 20 by Jrodrigues

[Pandadance]

in my case too, from today onwards, Shelly Mini PM Gen3 no longer works

[ihor.bardakov]

hello  

Until today, a system with three counters worked for me
one 3em
two PM mini

Shelly 3em is responsible for the state network
and two Shelly  PM mini are defined as generating units
one PM mini for Ecoflow powerstream
and another PM mini to count energy for charging batteries

but now my two PM minis don't show up and the system about the balcony solar station doesn't work anymore

what to do - what kind of update is it that broke everything?

[BeckSt]

I have the same Problem, it work’s no longer after the Update. In the Setup i find the Grid, but not the produced Energie. 

[tvbshelly]

With 2x PRO 3EM and Parallel Setup the new dashboard v.0.0.4 works.
The new graphical output of the current house consumption also looks correct at first glance:

Edited August 20 by tvbshelly

[tvbshelly]

Which firmware version is installed on the PM Mini Gen3? The current 1.4.2 (1.4.0) or 1.3.3 (respectively older)?

@Pandadance 

[michel]

PM Mini gen3

I bought 4 on purpose and now nothing works

sad.......

[Pandadance]

12 hours ago, tvbshelly said:

Which firmware version is installed on the PM Mini Gen3? The current 1.4.2 (1.4.0) or 1.3.3 (respectively older)?

@Pandadance 

Yesterday I had update at firmware 1.4.2 but the problem is the same. I read that another users have the problem only with PM Mini Gen 3. The problem is that PM MIni Gen3 isn't visible in the PV configuration.

Before the upgrade at v.0.0.4 all works fine

[Wernershelly]

I have the same Problem, under Option search no Shelly Found. 

17 hours ago, BeckSt said:

Ich habe das gleiche Problem, es funktioniert nicht mehr nach dem Update. Im Setup finde ich das Grid, aber nicht die produzierte Energie.

 

[tvbshelly]

Feedback on the PV Setup Alpha v.0.0.4 dashboard: My setup: 2x Shelly PRO 3EM, Parallel

I really like the new overview. The data displayed is also correct (compared to my "trick" with the separate room for both PRO 3EM to calculate self-consumption (right part of screenshot)).

In a large browser window, the graphic is pulled very far apart. I think this makes it a little less easily readable.

 

[tvbshelly]

Unfortunately, the graph is still wrong - but the balancing issue is well known:

The house consumption is correct, but at 6 a.m. no energy was being exported to the grid or consumed from the grid. The entire house consumption came directly from the PV battery. As you can also see, export and purchase from Grid are virtually the same, i.e. zero in reality.

Here is the comparison with the self-consumption room trick: House consumption is the difference between Consumption and Generated (669 Wh minus 189 Wh = 480 Wh) and the same as in the picture above

 

The values from 10 a.m. for comparison: At that time, it was almost exclusively export to the grid, as there was a large PV surplus. The values are therefore “more accurate” here:

 

Edited August 21 by tvbshelly