PV Setup - configuration and understanding

[AlexAn]

@Dimitar unfortunately, Shelly doesn't want to address the problem or they just don't understand it yet.

I'm now annoyed because I've been trying it on all channels for years.

• Ticket: no answer
• German Forum - Shelly ist not interested 😕
• QA Group: no return message
• Facebock comment to Dimitar: no answer
• Here in the forum: no answer

I have now removed my 3EM and Pro3EM and am testing them with another manufacturer!

Edited June 23 by AlexAn

[Olsche]

@Dimitar I also think: it's time for the developers to finally take another look at the topic of balancing. Numerous users have wanted this feature from the firmware side since the 3EM (Gen1) was released.

 

[Dominik]

18 hours ago, AlexAn said:

@Dimitar unfortunately, Shelly doesn't want to address the problem or they just don't understand it yet.

I'm now annoyed because I've been trying it on all channels for years.

• Ticket: no answer
• German Forum - Shelly ist not interested 😕
• QA Group: no return message
• Facebock comment to Dimitar: no answer
• Here in the forum: no answer

I have now removed my 3EM and Pro3EM and am testing them with another manufacturer!

I also opened another Ticket (112136) for this right now.

Edited June 24 by Dominik

[tvbshelly]

@Dimitar If there is still a need to clarify what we need, I think there are enough engaged users here who can help you and the developers understand our wishes.

Basically, I think the solution is quite simple:

Per measurement interval (I assume this is in the range of one or 2 seconds), all 3 phases are balanced / added.
If the result is positive, it is added to the variable total_act, if it is negative, it is added to total_act_ret.

It doesn't really matter whether you want to view export as a negative or positive value here, but I would pragmatically view it as negative. It is only important that this is correctly taken into account in other formulas such as the minute-by-minute summary for the local 60-day storage or the coarser summary for the cloud graphs or the PV dashboard.

Instead of using the existing variables, you can also add 2 new ones: total_act_bal + total_act_ret_bal.
Then there would be no need for a special mode to switch the devices to balancing and you would also be backwards compatible.

I hope my description is helpful.

[AlexAn]

Wir brauchen einen saldierten Modus und einen Phasenmodus!

Saldiert wird nur über die Summenleistungen und das permanent. Aktiv ist immer nur das Bezugslaufwerk oder das Lieferlaufwerk.

Aktuell tritt der Fehler nur auf sobald einer der 3 Phasen eine unterschiedliche Energierichtung hat. 

 

@Olsche danke für deinen Einsatz aber solange Shelly glaubt die deutsche Community aus welchen Gründen auch immer bestrafen zu wollen und glaubt uns jahrelang ignorieren zu müssen hat das Feedback hier keinen Sinn!

Ich für mich hab jetzt jahrelang die Integration in Loxone für lau gemacht und den Usern zur Verfügung gestellt.

Jetzt nicht mal eine Antwort zu bekommen verärgert mich jetzt schon sehr! 😞

 

 

Edited June 24 by AlexAn

[tvbshelly]

14 minutes ago, AlexAn said:

Wir brauchen einen saldierten Modus und einen Phasenmodus!

Saldiert wird nur über die Summenleistungen und das permanent. Aktiv ist immer nur das Bezugslaufwerk oder das Lieferlaufwerkt.

Damit wir alle das gleich beschreiben: Ist deine Beschreibung identisch mit dem, was ich erklärt habe, wenn man 2 weitere Variablen für die saldierten Werte hinzufügt?

Edited June 24 by tvbshelly

[Timo]

Hello, I have a Shelly Plus 1 PM to measure my pv. It shows positiv values for sure. How I get this negativ? I heard if I wire this the other way arround then the Shelly Plus 1 PM got no energy and is not working.

[tvbshelly]

Quote

1. Any Shelly PM or Shelly PlugS or Shelly EM with 1xCT connected to your Balcony PV system. It's important that this Shelly device reports Negative energy when the PV system supplies your home with energy! This device must be set as "Generated energy" appliance type.

Unfortunately I don't have a Plus 1 PM, but I assume from the above description that if you switch the device to the "Generated Energy" type that the consumption is output as a negative value? Maybe you can try that out.

[Timo]

I have set it to generated energy. The value shown on the dashboard it positiv. But the pv overview looks maybe right. I will try to add a picture.

 

[Timo]

2 hours ago, tvbshelly said:

Unfortunately I don't have a Plus 1 PM, but I assume from the above description that if you switch the device to the "Generated Energy" type that the consumption is output as a negative value? Maybe you can try that out.

Is that right ? 

[tvbshelly]

26 minutes ago, Timo said:

Is that right ? 

I honestly don't know 🤷‍♂️

Can you read the values on your inverter and compare them with this? And with the electricity meter?
You could also switch on the output for "Total house energy", this may help - just tap on the white crossed-out text.

Please keep in mind that the value is summarized for a whole hour, so it may not match the values from your inverter and grid meter. 

Edited June 24 by tvbshelly

[Jan Timm]

On 6/23/2024 at 12:09 PM, AlexAn said:

@Dimitar unfortunately, Shelly doesn't want to address the problem or they just don't understand it yet.

I'm now annoyed because I've been trying it on all channels for years.

• Ticket: no answer
• German Forum - Shelly ist not interested 😕
• QA Group: no return message
• Facebock comment to Dimitar: no answer
• Here in the forum: no answer

I have now removed my 3EM and Pro3EM and am testing them with another manufacturer!

Same here.

[Alcyr]

my Shelly EM installed in PV Energy measures positive values for generated energy (and I cannot invert this because other automations depend on it). There could be an option to count positive values as well.

[Alexanderr Adam]

Hi Dimitar,

trying to get this setup and have 2 ProEM configed as in the Parallel picture.
- The first Pro3EM is on configured at the Grid connection

- The 2nd ProEM is connected between the Fronius Inverter (with DC battery) and the house

When I am not injecting power the "Unkown" category is correct" when I am injecting power as below, Unknown is showing 15kW.  I tried to invert both Shellys with no effect.

 

 

The PV Setup graphs are throwing an error message.

 

[tvbshelly]

35 minutes ago, Alexanderr Adam said:

When I am not injecting power the "Unkown" category is correct" when I am injecting power as below, Unknown is showing 15kW.  I tried to invert both Shellys with no effect.

Unfortunately there is a bug in the calculation for "Unknown"

 

[tvbshelly]

58 minutes ago, Alexanderr Adam said:

The PV Setup graphs are throwing an error message.

Please check whether you have configured the "Appliance type" of the Shelly on the grid side to "Grid source" and the type of Shelly on the Fronius inverter side to "Generated energy".

In addition, the Shelly in front of the Fronius inverter must be configured so that the power value is positive when the inverter feeds power into the household (either turn the CT current transformer direction or change it via software).

In your screenshot you have selected Balcony PV, but Parallel is correct for your setup.

Edited June 27 by tvbshelly

[Alexanderr Adam]

On 6/27/2024 at 3:53 PM, tvbshelly said:

Please check whether you have configured the "Appliance type" of the Shelly on the grid side to "Grid source" and the type of Shelly on the Fronius inverter side to "Generated energy".

In addition, the Shelly in front of the Fronius inverter must be configured so that the power value is positive when the inverter feeds power into the household (either turn the CT current transformer direction or change it via software).

In your screenshot you have selected Balcony PV, but Parallel is correct for your setup.

Thanks, I changed the "generated energy" to a positive value and the grid source is negative. The Type is set as "Parallel".

Still throwing the error and the "unknown" category is incorrect.

 

[frankymusik]

...

Edited June 30 by frankymusik
should be an anwer, not a new topic...

[frankymusik]

22 hours ago, Alexanderr Adam said:

Thanks, I changed the "generated energy" to a positive value and the grid source is negative. The Type is set as "Parallel".

Still throwing the error and the "unknown" category is incorrect.

 

How did you do that, with the changed sign?

Did you write a script and use it ...

... or did you configure the hardware in a different way?

[tvbshelly]

You can change the direction in the Pro 3EM settings (separately for each phase) :

[yanmeyer]

Very useful. I only need to set the sell value / kWh. How to do this? Best regards. Yannick

[frafio]

Hi!
 

In the post, it is written: <<The Channel/CT connected to Grid wires MUST be set as "Grid source" and the other one MUST be set as "Generated Energy" as Appliance type in Shelly Smart Control Application.>>

But how is this done?
I have a Shelly 3EM with 2 CTs, but there is only the option to configure the device as "Grid Source" or "Generated Energy." I don't understand how to configure one CT as "Grid Source" and the other as "Generated Energy."

[tvbshelly]

You do indeed need 2 Shellys to achieve this, one to measure the grid side (set to Grid Source), the other to measure the PV side (set to Generated Energy).

In my opinion the parallel setup is not possible with a single Shelly.

In Dimitar's explanation at the beginning of this thread, it says that it should also work with a single Shelly, but unfortunately it's not clear to me how you can set this up.

Edited July 2 by tvbshelly

[frafio]

17 hours ago, tvbshelly said:

You do indeed need 2 Shellys to achieve this, one to measure the grid side (set to Grid Source), the other to measure the PV side (set to Generated Energy).

In my opinion the parallel setup is not possible with a single Shelly.

In Dimitar's explanation at the beginning of this thread, it says that it should also work with a single Shelly, but unfortunately it's not clear to me how you can set this up.

Thank you for the response. In a previous post, I read that it is possible to use the PRO version as a single Shelly. This way, with the PRO version, there is the possibility to see, in app, one device for each CT.

[Galloz]

Hi @Dimitar,

Thanks to think something to make Energy calculation.

But my configuration in more complex: I have two PV with their Tie-converters into a Shelly plug S(balcon 1), the Shelly EM with one channel with the Grid other the HVAC Power output and another Shelly plug S with a system 2 PV + batteries + tie-converters (on balcon 2). So your configuration reference it's not feasible by me.

In my opinion calculations must follow plant configuration not the inversed. So we need to have more channel attributes (like existing Grid, PV, PV+Batteries), and calculations should be configurable, assigning results to some global variables (like power generated, power consumed, Energy from batteries, desuming this from meteo and hour etc).