Garage door: Controller and 2PM G3 in parallel

[johnpsom]

Hi all, 

 

I need your support to validate the correct setup of using a Shelly 2PM G3 together with the controller of the garage door.

 

O1 and 02 from the 2PM G3 will go to the motor. The Number 5 and 6 of the above controller, will go to S1 and S2 of the shelly.
The shelly will be in Cover mode. What i need from you is what will be the Input type, Button or Edge?
Furthermore, if for some reason the shelly will be powered off, will the garage door be open/close by the remote of the controller? Should i use the detached mode in that case?

Please also verify if the connection i described is going to work or not.

Thank you.

Edited November 16 by johnpsom

[wooly]

In theory yes, but you should be sure not to have simulteaous actions from two controls.
Some motors [for example the one at my parents'] accept a simultaneous command up and down [that result in unlocking the brake, so the cover go down faster or slover by gravity] others get damaged. If you want to be on the safe side put a DPDT 220V relay supplied by the same supply of the shelly so if has power the motor is connected to the shelly, if not to the other controller.
I say however that since it is a garage door it normally has to be only in fully open of fully closed mode, so maybe would be more appropriate to use just an UNI in parallel to the manual switch.
About button or edge: button is for a pushbutton, edge is for an on-off switch that you do not know in which position is when you turn on the system.

Edited November 16 by wooly

[thgoebel]

Any control system for door-openers has safety features implemented, e.g. stop at obstruction or photoelectric barrier or a torque limit to prevent mechanical damages. With your circuit diagram you‘re avoiding these safety device!

A much better way to integrate a control with Shelly would be to use the start/stop contact (pin 6/7 7/8). A simple Shelly plus 1 can be connected there (pin I of Shelly to pin 8 of door opener; pin O to pin 7). An auto-off timer with 0,5 or 1 second runtime should be configured. An existing pushbutton may be wired in parallel to Shelly pin I/O.

Edited November 18 by thgoebel
Typo amended.

[wooly]

you may use the second contact of the shelly to connect the safety switch.
The torque limit is also present in the shelly implementation since it is used for calibration.
I have to note that the schematic posted show that the control has not the safety switch impem,ented, so the shelly version would not be less that that, and if you connect a safety switch too it would be better.
 

[thgoebel]

Obviously, you possess a higher grade crystal ball than me, @wooly. I‘m very exited about your insight in the safety features of the garage door controller which @johnpsom uses… 👍

Edited November 17 by thgoebel

[wooly]

12 minutes ago, thgoebel said:

Obviously, you possess a higher grade crystal ball than me, @wooly. I‘m very exited about your insight in the safety features of the garage door controller which @johnpsom uses… 👍

i see just that the layout of the controller he posted does not have the input for emergency stop [the second contact on the shelly 2PM] so i can say that probably it is safer the shelly than the original controller.

[johnpsom]

First of all thank you all for your reply.

@wooly @thgoebel i don’t know if the controller has a torque limiter or something else, never tested. Also the controller has only timer for the open and close calibration and the site of the manufacturer doesn’t say anything. However i would be surprised if it doesn’t have.

Unfortunately it is a common garage door, so i cannot replace it with the 2pm g3. This is the reason why i wanted to have it in parallel, so that me and my family to use the shelly rather than the controller and some nfc tags.

So bottom line, i tested it in parallel in cover mode and works fine. However i think i will test also in the morning the 2pm in switch mode, so that to connect one channel to the start/stop.
any recommendations?

 

[thgoebel]

A Shelly plus 2PM is unsuitable to act as a start/stop switch, cause it has no dry contact. Due to the fact, the live wire is connected with both legs of the two relay contacts, the mains voltage will harm the door controller. Please obtain a Shelly plus 1 to do the job!

[johnpsom]

So the two options are:

a) keep the 2pm in parallel but with the risk of a damage if for some reason simultaneously the controller is used

b) use the start/stop button of the controller with a shelly 1 that has dry contacts

c) remove completely the controller and keep the 2pm but that will require the other users of the door to agree

ok, thank you all for your support.

[johnpsom]

For your info, i went with solution b. Shelly plus 1.

 

thank you all.

[johnpsom]

23 hours ago, thgoebel said:

A simple Shelly plus 1 can be connected there (pin I of Shelly to pin 6 of door opener; pin O to pin 7). An auto-off timer with 0,5 or 1 second runtime should be configured. An existing pushbutton may be wired in parallel to Shelly pin I/O.

You mean 7 and 8… 😊

[thgoebel]

Exactly! Thanks for the note! Will amend the post…

[justmetlb]

So these don't have isolated relays? I am getting 3.5 volts across it. But the Shelly Plus 1 are isolated?

[thgoebel]

27 minutes ago, justmetlb said:

But the Shelly Plus 1 are isolated?

 Yes, indeed.

[johnpsom]

Further more @thgoebel, just to be on the safe side, i can add to the plus 1 the Add-On with a reed sensor correct? The Add-On is powered from Plus 1 even if plus one is at 220V AC. Correct?

 

[thgoebel]

Correct. The Add-On plus is galvanically separated from mains voltage.

[johnpsom]

Any specific reed sensor that you may propose or any reed switch will work with add-on?

 

Edited November 18 by johnpsom

[thgoebel]

Because there are myriads of reed sensors on the market a specific suggestion is inadequate. Would propose to look for adequate mechanical design. Electrically do as good as all reed sensors fit the needs, cause the current (less than 1mA) and the voltage (about 3V) are not an issue.

[wooly]

what is the extra sensor ? if is is to add an additonal safery (such a sensible border) it have to have a full knowledge of the position and movements of the gate, something that you cannot have with the control to just the pushbutton.
When you send a pulse you do not know if it will open or close the gate. even if you knew in advance the position. assume you command to toggle state  [that really is what you are doing with the 1] from fully on to "closing" . someone send another pulse that is interpreted as "stop" then another that becomes "up" and then a stop when it is at the right position.. someone lean on the gate and touch the sensor. no problem since the gate is stopped. but if your system acnowledge it as an emergency stop, while thinking that the gate is closing, would force it to close.
The only safe way i foresee in you do not want completely replace the controller, is to use either a UNI or a PI and conenct a sensor that close when the gate is in closed position, and put in series with the line to the button. ion this way the only possible action would be opening when is closed, but no other action, so staying on the safe way.
note that case c is quite easy, since you can connect the 2PM to the gate, having also the safety input, retaining the esixting controller only to gather the commands by the exixting buttons and remotes

[johnpsom]

@wooly sorry for my late response. Starting from the end, yes i tested it with 2pm and worked super fine along with the current controller so that to have the rf buttons. However i realized that i still had to use a power contactor to control the light of the garage, since the current controller cannot control lights.

So i finally i used the current plus 1 for the light as a light switch without the contactor, another plus 1 with addon so the plus1 acting as a switch for the garage door, and the addon with a reed sw acting as a switch to the plus that controls the light. As far as the safety is concerned, after contacting with the vendor of the controller I learned that it does have safety feature in case of obstruction similar to shelly 2pm.

So I managed in the same space in the panel, to add 2 more functions that I couldn’t with the previous setup, opening the door through auto ation or mobile or alexa etc., and knowing the position of the door so that to have the light on or off.

Edited December 5 by johnpsom