Connecting a Shelly Addon to a Hall effect Sensor

[João Ribeiro]

Hi,

I am trying to figure out how to connect a Hall efect Sensor (open collector) to my shelly add on.

The hall has: 

1. 0 V Hall Input

2. +12 V Hall Input

3. Hall Signal A (Hall output square waves)

4. Hall Signal B (Hall output square Waves)

5. GND

Can anyone help me out?

From shelly add on presentation a reference to hall sensors is made, but no example is shown.

Thank you

João Ribeiro

Edited September 9 by João Ribeiro
Writing error

[thgoebel]

Why the hall sensor has two outputs (A and B)? Would you please indicate a type or link a specification of the device?

[João Ribeiro]

I believe its because i lt has 2 channels for voltage output.

This is a motor attached to a PV system follower.

It is a brushed motor with Hall from 

www.kinematicsmfg.com

see especificarions:

MAGNETIC PULSE GENERATOR DATA

Output type: voltage output

Pull-up resistor: yes

Output signal: 2 square wave signals

phase quadrature: 90°

Impulses per revolution 2,channels A and B

Operating voltage UN=12 (5 ... 24)

Operating current max. 12 (U=12V)

Deviation of pulse width max. 15°

Deviation of phase shift max. 15°

Output voltage(low level) max. 0.4 (20mA)

SIGNAL RISE TIME 85

SIGNAL DECAY TIME 60

Operating temperature -40 to +85

Edited September 12 by João Ribeiro

[thgoebel]

Thought as much it’s a rotation sensor…

And thanks for the additional data. Not very useful.

Two diagrams:

(a) Add-On plus (as you wanted):

 

(The hosting Shelly is not shown.)

The digital input of the Add-On is protected by a Schottky diode. The input itself has a source voltage of approximately 3V. It is activated by a small current flowing out of the input terminal towards GND. 
But what is the max. input frequency? How fast does the shaft rotate? This should be discussed, because the digital input of the Add-On is limited by debouncing capacitors.

Obviosly, it would be better to use a Shelly UNI plus:

(b) Shelly UNI plus

This Shelly has a count input which is capable to indicate up to 1kHz. The three digital inputs are protected against voltage spikes. Thus, an additional diode is obsolete. In the case the frequency of the hall signal is low, both outputs of the hall sensor may be attached to the Shelly (shown in dotted lines).

 

[João Ribeiro]

Thank you. I will buy the shelly uni and give it a go! 

And if it works and i have to add another hall sensor like this i must buy 2 shelly uni correct? One for each sensor! Thank you again. 

[thgoebel]

Don’t know the frequency of the hall signal - you didn’t disclose this! And we’re not aware of the aim of your project!

A Shelly UNI plus (please be aware of the „plus“ while buying!) has one COUNT input only. If a „normal“ digital input should be sufficient, you would need one UNI plus only. But you’ll have to elaborate this by yourself…

[João Ribeiro]

Hello, sorry if the information is incomplete. All the intormation that i have is per images attached. Basically i am trying to recover the solar linear tracking system that stopped working.

The company that installed this had no information about this system (old and discontinued system about 15 years).

The manufactuer sent me an old drawing of the motor specs that has the hall sensor incorporated, wich is the one i attach now to this conversation.

This hall sensor, i believe, gives informations (by voltage outputs) about the positions of the motor (and solar pannel).

I am not aware of the frequency of the hall signal. How can i Get that info?

Thank you.

Regards

[João Ribeiro]

The pdf for better reading

24H-1800-236-25-K-V-40-REV.D.pdf

[thgoebel]

1. What is you goal, please? To replace the motor control of with a Shelly? No chance, sorry!

The motor control of a brushless DC motor has to initiate and to maintain the rotation. And this is accompanied with rigid time restraints. You‘ll have to replace the faulty motor with its control!

Addendum: Obviously, it’s a brushed DC motor which will rotate by itself. Thus the hall sensor is for counting the rotations and ti indicate the rotational speed. With 1800 Upm, the hall signal will cycle with a frequency of 30Hz minimum, depending on the mechanical arrangement of magnets. This will be too much for the digital inputs of a Shelly UNI plus. You‘ll have to use the COUNT input of TWO Shelly UNI plus devices.

Edited September 16 by thgoebel

[João Ribeiro]

Thank you. The issue here is not to control it. But to get info on the position. Thats why i would like to know how to connect the add on/uni plus.

[thgoebel]

9 hours ago, João Ribeiro said:

Thats why i would like to know how to connect the add on/uni plus.

And that‘s what I’ve shown yet…

Another remark: TWO hall signals (in quadrature collocation) are both delivering the same information about rotational count, but deliver with the phase shift an info about the direction (left/right) of the rotation. If the recognition of the direction of rotation would be solved by other means (e.g. a polarised relay or digital input of UNI plus at the motor wires), only ONE COUNT input would be necessary!

Edited September 16 by thgoebel

[wimb]

If you need absolutely the count and the direction then you can use a converter to make pulse and direction from the taws A  and B signals. The pulse can go to the count and the direction to another input of the UNI+. You will need some Shelly programming knowledge and an oscilloscope to check the pulses.
 

Edited September 16 by terae
Aliexpress links and recommendations are out of season here

[Rui Moreira]

Hello, can somebody help me please. I have 23 Shelly 3EM pro and Im using them for current monitoring. Everything works fine but i need to receive some notifications to my email when the values change. I can set all the values ans everything else but I dont know how to find or make an URL so the notifications go directly to my email. Please, im a bit dumb so please be nico to me 🙂 thank you in advance

[João Ribeiro]

On 12.9.2024 at 09:24, thgoebel said:

Thought as much it’s a rotation sensor…

And thanks for the additional data. Not very useful.

Two diagrams:

(a) Add-On plus (as you wanted):

 

(The hosting Shelly is not shown.)

The digital input of the Add-On is protected by a Schottky diode. The input itself has a source voltage of approximately 3V. It is activated by a small current flowing out of the input terminal towards GND. 
But what is the max. input frequency? How fast does the shaft rotate? This should be discussed, because the digital input of the Add-On is limited by debouncing capacitors.

Obviosly, it would be better to use a Shelly UNI plus:

(b) Shelly UNI plus

This Shelly has a count input which is capable to indicate up to 1kHz. The three digital inputs are protected against voltage spikes. Thus, an additional diode is obsolete. In the case the frequency of the hall signal is low, both outputs of the hall sensor may be attached to the Shelly (shown in dotted lines).

 

Here you are connecting 12V+ to shelly uni 5V+ is it ok?

Thank you

Edited September 19 by João Ribeiro

[thgoebel]

I anticipated this question - thanks! (Must admit: Much earlier…)

No kidding!

Just have a look in the guts of the Shelly UNI plus:

As you may recognise, the only difference between pin 1/2 and 6/7 is a full-wave rectifier. Thus, attaching 12V DC at pins 6/7 does no harm to the UNI plus but ensures a proper ground potential for the digital and analog inputs. But be aware: With pin 6/7, there is no reverse voltage protection! You‘ll have to be carefully in wiring!

 

Edited September 19 by thgoebel

[João Ribeiro]

Thank you again Thgoebel,

i have made it a test on the shelly uni, but i must be doing something wrong on the wiring.

I have connected this way:

The power suplly gets instable. what i'm doing wrong. can you help?

 

thank you.

 

regards,

[thgoebel]

Cannot identify wrong  connections. What do you mean with “power supply gets unstable”? Did you determine the current flowing into the Shelly and/or the hall sensor? Which power supply do you use?

Edited September 22 by thgoebel

[João Ribeiro]

The ligth of the power suplly gets blinking when the hall sensor is conected. i have previously confirmed the 12V output before wiring the sensor.

[thgoebel]

Most likely, the hall sensor will be faulty. Could you measure the current drain of the sensor (ammeter in wire to pin 4 of motor)?

[João Ribeiro]

Most likely it is faulty. I cant ever take measurements because when it is wired the hall sennsor the power supply starts failing...

I will have to buy new sensors compatible with shelly uni. Any recomendation? Ideally should be a positioning sensor (inclinometer or similar).

For example:
https://a.aliexpress.com/_ExTyNwt

is this type of sensor compatible with uni?

Thank you

[thgoebel]

The linked article is a gyroscope sensor with RS485 interface. Not compatible with Shelly UNI plus!
 

Edited September 29 by thgoebel

[João Ribeiro]

Thank you.

is there any sensors of this kind compatible with shelly?

Thank you

[thgoebel]

As to be seen above, rotational sensors with an impulse output are moderately adaptable. In your first posts you did show us a DC motor with a rotational sensor. Now, you‘re fancying a gyroscope sensor. It would be brilliant to get more insight at your application! How can a rotational sensor do the same job as a gyroscope?

[João Ribeiro]

Hi Thgoebel,

you are rigth. the original scope was the hall efect sensores integrated in the motors. wich are supposely malfunctioning.

The aim of the job is to control de position for the PV panels in two direction. The movement is controled by two diferent mottors. For this job if shelly uni was compatible with a gyroscope it would better because only one sensor were to be instaled.

if not posible, i will look for a rotacional sensor and a linear sensor:

Do you know any sensor that are compatible with  shelly uni or Shelly addon that i can utilize for this scope?

Thank you.