110vDc motor…..Need help with what device to go with if any can be used

[Rick]

I have a horizontal bifold air plane hanger type door I built for my shop. I have a strongarm sa1200ac winch I use to lower and raise it. I have spoke with the company and they informed me and I verified that 120vac comes in from wall ply to a bridge that converts power to dc. When you hit the rocker switch it delivers 100-120 vdc which travels to the dc motor. The switches they have in the hand held wired remote are only ac rated. I bought two Shelly 1 pro’s because I thought I could wire them where it would skip the rockers and lift and lower my door which has two roller limit switches installed. 
 

so is there a solution to being able to use a Shelly product to control my dc motor? My other option is get rid of the winch and get a normal garage door and fabricate some kind of chain drive system and then I would have more features and be able to use the Shelly 1. 
 

I attached the wiring for it and the switches they use to control the motor that I took out of the wired hand held remote. 

Edited August 8 by Rick
Added better title

[thgoebel]

Is the motor equipped with limit switches? If not, an automated control is not recommended, due to the risk of mechanical damages.

What is the power consumption and current drain of the motor?

Beneath these questions, it is a rather simple diagram with a Shelly pro 2 with two relays:

 

(E1 and E2 are the limit switches.)

Edited August 8 by thgoebel

[Rick]

Thanks for the diagram! I have two external limit switches I added for the open/up and closed/down limit. 
 

i have it wired like this right now with my limit switches. I got this wiring diagram from the company that makes the winch.

 

I’m trying to get a switch for o run the winch that would only be a single switch with on-off-on but it’s latching. That way I walk up hot the rocket switch and it open or close without me standing there holding a momentary rocket switch. 

[Rick]

What relays would be needed for your diagram you sent me to make it work? 

[thgoebel]

With the limit switches and assuming you‘ll get two SPDT relays with coils for 110V DC (R and S), you may use this diagram:

 

E1/E2 are the two limit switches. B1/B2 are optional manual push buttons. The Shelly pro 2 is supplied with 110V DC, which is uncomplicated. Plus has to be connected to terminal N.
Unfortunately, you didn’t specify the power consumption and the max. current of the motor. Thus, a recommendation for the two diodes D1 and D2 can not be given.

 

Edited August 8 by thgoebel

[Rick]

The max current  of the motor when pressing the dpdt rocket switch was 125 vdc on my Klein test meter. I’m not sure what power consumption would be or how to find out that information.

[thgoebel]

125V DC are not a current but a voltage!

[thgoebel]

An alternative circuit diagram would be to move the limit switches (electrically) in front of the relay coils:

This unburdens the limit switches from the (still unkown) motor current.

Edited August 8 by thgoebel

[Rick]

Current eequals amps from my google search and max amps drawn under load is 7-8 amps I was told by the company who makes it. 

Edited August 8 by Rick
Correct spelling

[thgoebel]

Thanks for the motor specs (albeit quite rudimentary)! Thus, you‘ve some basic conditions for buying the relays: Their contacts must withstand 16A DC current at 110V DC. Power consumption of the motor shall be approximately 900W. Given that, the relays should switch 1,5 hp at least. And be aware of the 110V DC coils! You should use the alternative diagram with limit switches in the circuit of the relay coils - in this case you don’t need high current diodes. Additionally, the wiring seems to be more convenient cause high current paths are minimised.

Edited August 8 by thgoebel

[Rick]

Thank you for the help! I will get the Shelly pro 2 ordered! I’m wanting to run a locking/latching (not sure what everyone calls it) toggle or rocker switch with on-off-on where I press the switch for up or down and can walk away and it will stop on its own due to the limit switches. I’m having a hard time finding one that fits the specs. Do you happen to know if one that would work for this? 

[thgoebel]

Would recommend a simple double push button. The button or switch needs not to be locked against a simultaneous push of both buttons cause the circuit diagram is fail safe: The motor cannot be damaged with such an operating error.

The Shelly must be set to „button“ and „toggle“ for a behaviour as you wants.

Edited August 8 by thgoebel

[thgoebel]

12 hours ago, Rick said:

. I bought two Shelly 1 pro’s

You may use them instead of the proposed Shelly pro 2! The only tradeoff is you‘ll need more space in the box…

[Rick]

5 minutes ago, thgoebel said:

You may use them instead of the proposed Shelly pro 2! The only tradeoff is you‘ll need more space in the box…

I actually bought the Shelly 1 plus two pack not the pro. I would need the Shelly pro 2 not the pro 2pm correct? 

[thgoebel]

You may also use Shelly plus 1. And yes, I did recommend Shelly pro 2, not a „PM“ Shelly. The power measurement system doesn’t help - it will not work both with DC and relays…

[Rick]

How would you wire the two Shelly plus 1 smart switches? Room is not an issue. Is there a pro or con of not using the Shelly pro 2 vs using the Shelly plus 1? 

Edited August 8 by Rick

[thgoebel]

Circuit diagram with 2 pc. Shelly plus 1:

[Rick]

14 hours ago, thgoebel said:

Thanks for the motor specs (albeit quite rudimentary)! Thus, you‘ve some basic conditions for buying the relays: Their contacts must withstand 16A DC current at 110V DC. Power consumption of the motor shall be approximately 900W. Given that, the relays should switch 1,5 hp at least. And be aware of the 110V DC coils! You should use the alternative diagram with limit switches in the circuit of the relay coils - in this case you don’t need high current diodes. Additionally, the wiring seems to be more convenient cause high current paths are minimised.

Is there anyways you could send me a link to a relay that would work with my set up? I’m trying to find relays to work and I’m not having any luck with it. I might not be putting the correct information in the search bar. Thanks! 

[thgoebel]

You‘ll need a contactor class DC-3 or DC-5, with 16A rated current and 120VDC. This is essential cause you‘re controlling a motor. Coil voltage (AC/DC) is at first not very important. 110VDC coil voltage would be brilliant, but 110VAC is possible with some amendments of the diagram. Even a coil voltage of 24VDC would be suitable with an additional small power supply.

A source for a contactor could be the distributor where you bought the motor…

[Rick]

59 minutes ago, thgoebel said:

You‘ll need a contactor class DC-3 or DC-5, with 16A rated current and 120VDC. This is essential cause you‘re controlling a motor. Coil voltage (AC/DC) is at first not very important. 110VDC coil voltage would be brilliant, but 110VAC is possible with some amendments of the diagram. Even a coil voltage of 24VDC would be suitable with an additional small power supply.

A source for a contactor could be the distributor where you bought the motor…

like these relays? 

https://www.amazon.com/dp/B0D2RBPNZP/ref=sspa_mw_detail_2?ie=UTF8&psc=1&sp_csd=d2lkZ2V0TmFtZT1zcF9waG9uZV9kZXRhaWwp13NParams

[thgoebel]

No, sorry! You‘ll need a SPDT relay (with a NO and NC contact). The SSR are SPST (NO contact only). Otherwise, a SSR would be a perfect choice…

[Rick]

On 8/9/2024 at 2:23 AM, thgoebel said:

You‘ll need a contactor class DC-3 or DC-5, with 16A rated current and 120VDC. This is essential cause you‘re controlling a motor. Coil voltage (AC/DC) is at first not very important. 110VDC coil voltage would be brilliant, but 110VAC is possible with some amendments of the diagram. Even a coil voltage of 24VDC would be suitable with an additional small power supply.

A source for a contactor could be the distributor where you bought the motor…

The motor was bought as a winch system. I have reached out to them and they don’t sell or can’t point me in the right direction for a coil relay that you suggested. I have found 110/220v ac spdt 16qmp coil relays kinda expensive compared to a lot of others. 
 

could you share a link or two possibly so I can see exactly what you are telling me that I need? 
 

im trying to get this project done asap and move on to the other 1500 projects I have going on. IMG_4266.HEIC

[thgoebel]

Don‘t even know in what country you’re living…

Addendum:

https://asset.conrad.com/media10/add/160267/c1/-/de/003111908DS00/datenblatt-3111908-abb-bc7-22-00-04-kleinschuetz-2-schliesser-2-oeffner-55-kw-1-st.pdf

https://www.conrad.de/de/p/abb-bc7-22-00-04-kleinschuetz-2-schliesser-2-oeffner-5-5-kw-1-st-3111908.html?utm_source=google&utm_medium=organic&utm_campaign=shopping&srsltid=AfmBOopjmgD6Cs2ply3ut8XTac8AHKW-RPJrSyjz7j7RsNM9Yh9zFFYJefA#productDescription

Edited August 14 by thgoebel

[Rick]

32 minutes ago, thgoebel said:

Don‘t even know in what country you’re living…

Addendum:

https://asset.conrad.com/media10/add/160267/c1/-/de/003111908DS00/datenblatt-3111908-abb-bc7-22-00-04-kleinschuetz-2-schliesser-2-oeffner-55-kw-1-st.pdf

https://www.conrad.de/de/p/abb-bc7-22-00-04-kleinschuetz-2-schliesser-2-oeffner-5-5-kw-1-st-3111908.html?utm_source=google&utm_medium=organic&utm_campaign=shopping&srsltid=AfmBOopjmgD6Cs2ply3ut8XTac8AHKW-RPJrSyjz7j7RsNM9Yh9zFFYJefA#productDescription

I live in the United States. Would it be an option to run 110vac from the wall plug into a Shelly device switch out of the Shelly device to the bridge (in the winch now) then to the motor and still get it to reverse? Possibly use the Shelly 2pm plus with the roller curtain option? Just sitting here brain storming about it at my desk. I have wired houses myself and that’s about as far as my electrical experience goes besides adding additional breakers and outlets or lights to an existing home. Electronics I’m not experienced in. 
 

i was thinking possibly get a 12vdc motor to replace the motor in the winch now but I don’t think it would produce the power i need to lift my door. I put a crane scale on it and it mostly only has 350 lbs of pull force on it and once it gets over half way up its between 520-650 lbs of upward pull force the winch is having to lift. Once stopped at the open limit it is back to 350 lbs of force but it’s not moving. 
 

I probably need to put a counter weight in the door of at least 200 or 300 lbs and that would help out with the lifting force with the motor I have now. If I changed to 12vdc motor I was thinking 500 lb counter weight hit that’s a lot of counter weight on my building. Even the 300 lb counter weight is a lot. 

[thgoebel]

The datasheet of the ABB contractor should help you in finding a replacement. And, by the way: You’ll find certainly a friend with skill in electronics. Gave you two diagrams. That should be enough…

Edited August 14 by thgoebel